Naming Nocturnals!

[Kat]

I was going to keep the other thread with a changing poll area, but that is not allowed, so I had to make a new one. I think everyone has been keeping up with the name talk, but if not, it's all up on the third page of the thread with the ideas.

I don't want to run through it right now.

So, please give input into what we should call the not-simourvs. I am sick of not knowing how to refer to them.

ALSO, we need to discuss names for them, as characters. This has been discussed a bit, but I will try to lay out the argument here. (I am sorry if I misquote anyone or misrepresent anyone, or reduce anyone's input to bad writing.)

I said originally, that I thought maybe there was some sort of tradition for naming the not-simourvs. Of course, since they cannot talk, they cannot name themselves like simourv can, however; I thought maybe there was a general trend most people, especially postal riders and guard riders, used when they named them after they bonded. Para added that it would be a trend, not a rule, which everyone seemed to think was appropriate.

Lan suggested that we use the same concept behind Wher names in Pern, that you take the rider's name and add an ending to it. She suggested that we use 'SP," so that if you had a rider named Bob, he would be the rider of Bosp.

I said that I liked the general idea behind that, but I disliked the way that the rider's name became the not-simourv's name, because it ruined their ability to be more individual as characters. I also said that I thought we should think of something a bit different from Pern. So I suggested that instead of using the rider's name as the base, we use a dead friend or family member of the rider. So, if your rider was Bob, and Bob had a sister named Jane, who was killed by koxi, then he would name his not-simourv Janesp, or some variation. This could be applied to any family member that was recently dead as a way of honoring those who died. I suggested different endings, but I like Lan's better, so I'm recanting my suggestions or something.

If these ideas sound stupid, I would assume it's my terrible summaries, so maybe you could investigate them in the idea thread. And post other suggestions here. Or comments. Or rude remarks, whatever!

[Para]

*runs through idea thread for naming-related stuff*

Kat, you suggested that maybe the naming system is close to universal, but people who bond to the minis on their own (basically, in the wild) don't know/don't think about the system, and so name their minis differently. And that maybe mini riders get some kind of ceremonial name; I don't think anyone's said any more on that but I like the idea. I doubt the Eyrie would allow them to use a contraction (unless maybe the southern simourv riders' names are changed differently, and the mini riders' names are contracted like the northern simourv riders, and that would be really interesting...), so maybe they all tack on an ending of some kind?

Killy suggested having the naming rule/trend be a bit less strict, so that people brought up to use it would (as in, guards) but people who weren't brought up to wouldn't (people who found them in the wild, maybe guards who have only recently joined the program)

My suggestion was that there are multiple trends; maybe the guards name their minis after legendary figures (I figure they haven't been on Pohono so long that they wouldn't know Hercules, Washington, etc., if possibly the stories are a bit distorted), maybe or maybe not with an ending, the express names their minis with the dead person + ending method (for some reason I think naming the express riders' simourv after the dead/ghosts fits them very well), and nobles from one area name theirs after trees, another area names theirs after animals, if we have the racing-for-entertainment the racers name their minis for rivers, etc. Different groups or regions have different naming systems, which would be fun situations when someone is raised in one group (say, the nobles that name theirs after flowers) but somehow ends up in another group (say the guards). And then you get 'which one of these doesn't belong?' names (so, say, there'd be minis named Thor, Napoleon, Herakles, Minerva, and Daisy.)(Apparently I need to relearn my non-Greek and Roman legends, but anyway.)

I believe that's all that was mentioned in the thread, might be more in other threads or the cbox though.

[Kilnarak]

I... do not like Pern-ish name-idea. I'm fine with it for the simourv, I don't like it for the not-simourv. Not even with the dead-family-member name.

I lean more towards sort of a naming tendency? But maybe named for traits/what their rider wants them to be (sort of Temeraire-ish? All of the dragonriders mostly choose imposing sort of latin names, whereas rarely individuals who don't know the naming pattern will name them other things like Lily and whatnot?) If that makes sense?

I'm sort of having a bad day so I am not sure how clear I am. I keep having snarly moments.

[Kat]

I really like the idea of differentiated names for different professions and regions. I also like the idea of latinate names and names of heroes. I think that a lot of mythological names would survive the trip to Pohono, since it hasn't actually been that long. Also, we have some mythological names for characters, like Morgana and others. (She's the first I can think of right now. Sorry guys.)

Perhaps the guards do name their not-simourvs after like legends, but some of those legends are corrupted in some way. Like just over time, the names become a bit different from their original origins. For example, if my character wanted to name his not-simourv after say...Minerva, he could name her Merva, etc. Names could also be changed more significantly/ altered if people wanted. Or we could have some unaltered names, etc, as long as they were somewhat recognizable. I think those would be for guards. I also think it will be fun to play around with the idea of modern mythology, so current people who become legends. Maybe someone could use Gatsby, or Oprah, or Obama, for example.

Postal workers could name their not-simourvs after places of legends instead of people. And of course 'places of legend' would be more like real places on Earth that are only known about on Pohono through stories. Perhaps someone could have Manhattan, or Ireland, or Egypt, as well as maybe some less fantastical places like Utah or Georgia. I like the place idea.

I think nobles naming their not-simourvs after dead family members makes more sense, because it will be a way of including the family lineage in the name of not-simourv.

ALSO, just saying that gave me an idea. What if not-simourv riders conjoined the name they give to their not-simourv with their own name to make an honorific name without it looking like a rider name.

So, if my character was named Bob, and his not-simourv was named Minerva, then he would become Ervabob, for example, or something similar. Kind of the way Pern does child names out of the parents' names. It could even be really structured, so perhaps you use the back half of the not-simourv name in front of the front half of the rider name, so that the name looks pretty different. For example, if you had a rider named and a not-simourv named:

Jennifer and Ireland, you would end up with Landifer as the rider's name after bonding.

Michael and Hercules becomes Ulesmich.
Etc.

Thoughts?

And I do like Killy's idea of traits, too, so we could consider that instead of one of the other themes. Or the people/ places you choose to name your mini off have traits you want your mini to possess. So if I named a green Hercules, then I would be saying I wanted my green to be strong. If I named a mini Switzerland, then I would want it to be moderate, etc.

[Para]

I like the idea of the Latin names, but I'm not sure how it'd be explained for Pohono to still know Latin, at least for most people, and I'm not sure I see a bunch of guards heading off to the local scholar to ask about a good Latin name for their minimourv.

For the postal riders, I think they'd aim for speed-related names; wind/travel gods/goddesses, birds, things that move fast. Which is why I had them using the dead names in my example; they'd be naming their minis after ghosts and spirits. But I do think the nobles naming after relatives makes more sense, so... maybe theirs are named after legendary creatures, or fast earth creatures--Cheetah, Black Racer (it's a kind of snake, if I remember right), Thunderbird, things like that. I just really see their names having some kind of connection to speed or travel.

As to making the riders' names a combination of the rider's and minimourv's, I'm not sure. In concept I like it, but in practice that's going to end up with some really odd and awkward names, especially if the form of it is so rigid. It also has the reverse problem of the mini getting the rider's name; the rider's character could become secondary to the mini's. (Although, now that I think of it; does it matter that much if the mini's character is secondary to the rider's? They can't talk, they're not as intelligent, so they're unlikely to be characters anywhere near as much as the simourv are anyway.) So maybe some kind of adaptation, but just not to that degree? They change their name to start with the same letter as their mini's, or end with the same sound/syllable, or something like that.

[Kat]

Well, Pohono does use Latin for scientific names, so perhaps some of that Latin has passed down. Although, I think it makes more sense for all the Latin names used to be well known figures of history, etc, because then there would be a reason for the names to survive.

As I said, I really liked the postal riders having place names. I think it's a cool idea, with the idea of geography and travel as connected to the postal service. With that said, I am open to other suggestions. I wouldn't mind animal names, even though I think we'd have to limit it to animals that people would remember, like if those animals did not exist anymore. And it would be funnnnyyyy to have someone name their mini Cheetah, because like--a cheetah was a 20 foot long beast, with enormously powerful jaws that crushed the bones of small children. They also happened to be the fastest animals on earth, and they moved so quickly, you couldn't see them while they ran, which made their assaults on local villages quite dangerous and deadly. Of course, that wouldn't be a huge part of gameplay, but I am really interested in the way mythology would pass from earth to Pohono now that all connections to earth are lost.

Right now, though, how do people feel about guards naming their not-simourvs after mythological characters/ people from history who became mythological characters over time.

And nobles naming their minis after dead family members, probably of importance.

Well, one advantage the minis have as to the way names can be combined is that riders name their minis, so I would imagine the riders are very careful to pick names which fit well with their names, if we wanted to adopt that naming convention. With that said, I like the idea of maybe adding the end sound of the mini name to the rider name. So like, with Michael and Hercules, you end up with
Michules, which is a stupid name, but an example. And perhaps it doesn't have to be just the last part, but perhaps it could be just a distinguishable sound.

So Laura and Prometheus could become Lauprome, which is actually a pretty cool name. Or Laureth, or Laureus. (I really like Lauraprome, actually. If I was going to make a female rider, and we pick this convention, I would use this in a heat-beat. It rhymes with "Antigone" in my head, like: 'Laura-prom-ee." Godddd, now I want it.)

And again, just because I'm giving examples, David and Antigone could be Davigone (alt: Davidone), Davan, Davtig (alt: Davitag), etc. I kind of like this convention. It's interesting, and the names are pretty cool.

I really like the more flexible way better, in hindsight, because I think it allows for a way to combine the names without the presence of the mini being blatantly obvious in the character's names.


But we can put it to discussion. (Also, I am set on my mini's name already, and it's going to mix really weirdly. I may end up with a very interestingly named character.)

Also, just as a random note to Para, I think the minis are supposed to be very intelligent. They may not be simourv intelligent, exactly, because they seem to live in less complex societies, but they could be and we wouldn't really know, because they cannot communicate telepathically with humans. I do think, though, that they probably can with simourvs, so I guess that might be problematic. Orrrr, simourvs can talk to minis, but view them as lower beings, so they don't.

But as for intelligence, I was thinking they'd be at like dolphin, chimp level of intelligence, if not more so. They are more primitive, and yet not quite so much.

But yeah, they aren't as individual as simourvs, I suppose.